[twitchy]

Man or Beast, I got the Beef.

No doubt...

PETA
Animal behaviorists have found that cows interact in socially complex ways, developing friendships over time and sometimes holding grudges against other cows who treat them badly.

Which Uncle was it?

[twitchy]

I knew he was an ankle biter but no one would take the bet.

Getting that impression lol.

[Guest]

Man or Beast, I got the Beef.

No doubt...

PETA
Animal behaviorists have found that cows interact in socially complex ways, developing friendships over time and sometimes holding grudges against other cows who treat them badly.

Which Uncle was it?

It was my cousin, Ben.





PETA.
LOL

Those buildings were pre wired to come down after the 93 fbi bombings.
On 9-11 -2001 they were brought down by demolition.

[oldcynic]

Thanks @twitchy . Very thought provoking. Definitely a view I never took. Watched every episode of Get Smart back in the day. We did some current events association but never thought it was a writing for the future. Worth multiple reads to digest everything. Good stuff.

[twitchy]

Thanks @twitchy .  Very thought provoking.  Definitely a view I never took.  Watched every episode of Get Smart back in the day.  We did some current events association but never thought it was a writing for the future.  Worth multiple reads to digest everything.  Good stuff.

Thanks, I was beginning to think that VonLud was the only person who was going to reply lol.

[oldcynic]

Thanks @twitchy .  Very thought provoking.  Definitely a view I never took.  Watched every episode of Get Smart back in the day.  We did some current events association but never thought it was a writing for the future.  Worth multiple reads to digest everything.  Good stuff.

Thanks, I was beginning to think that VonLud was the only person who was going to reply lol.

It's a generational thing. "Get Smart", Don Adams, Tennessee Tuxedo, Prescott Bush ???

[twitchy]

It's a generational thing.  "Get Smart", Don Adams, Tennessee Tuxedo, Prescott Bush ???    

Tennessee Tuxedo... damn, now that's old school!

[twitchy]

A little less than four years after the JFK assassination was when NBC aired episode 52 of Get Smart. Recall from earlier in the thread where we discussed the fact that the CIA literally walked onto the set and wanted to know where the show was getting it's ideas from as they were apparently getting too close for comfort on some very real intelligence work....
Despite his subsequent denials, this was the Hay Day of George Bush's involvement in the CIA long before accepting a position as it's director in 1976, just a few years before before good ole Brezenski came along orchestrating the mujahideen debacle in Afghanistan with operatives like Tim Osman (aka Osama Bin Laden).
There's two reasons this is important to the events of Sept.11 2001,
1.
https://youtu.be/-NlJQJUUqR4
George Bush's involvement in the JFK assassination and more importantly the narco-corruption behind it. Apples don't fall far from trees, though and his father, Prescott Bush, was one a very few actually tried under the Trading with the Enemy Act for his involvement with Harriman Nazi bankrolling and his son, well let's be nice... None of this is terribly shocking but it gives you an idea as to what kind of folks you're dealing with.
2.
https://youtu.be/CdE1Cwnymzc
This video establishes motive, pure and simple. If that doesn't curl your toes enough, dig around in the largely unknown and poorly understood multi-billion dollar BCCI fiasco. Take your pick... and remember that George Bush and Bill Clinton were so intimately involved in this fiasco they shared the same lawyer, which isn't really surprising either, considering this...

Not really all that fascinating if you overlook presidential assassinations, sponsoring terrorism, and drug money laundering, but in the context of 9-11 you may notice these very same names, flight schools, and places being repeated in the 9-11 narrative. This was the cabal that was in place and running our intelligence agencies in and around the times that the WTC were being constructed and this very interesting, even esoteric episode of Get Smart hit the air and attracted the attention of the CIA. This goes all the way back to the 1960's.
Some particulate was in the range of 2.5 microns, and there have been estimates that as much as 1/3 of the concrete was completely pulverized in this fashion. There was a bit earlier on in this thread about the concrete possibly being formulated somehow to achieve this that I'd like to hear your opinion on.
Also in response to the endless drone of 'there were no explosions'...
I'm not the only one that has said as much...
"For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of planned attacks of buildings inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high — a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping."
-George W. Bush
The whitehouse has since removed the quote from their records, but thankfully not everyone else's.
As much as 1/3 is a lot. 2.5 Microns is atomized. Pyroclastic is very hot for concrete powder...

https://youtu.be/68LUHa_-OlA
Pretty interesting information all around but of particular interest to this thread is that about halfway through the video or so, CIA whistleblower Susan Lindauer, one of the first non arab americans to be arrested under the Patriot Act, mentions that her handler tells her to stay away from NYC because the terrorists were planning to use micro-nukes and was concerned for her safety due to fallout.
Cars in the immediate are were bursting into flame, doors and door handles were popping off, something was producing iron rich micro spheres in the dust and it stayed hot for months despite millions of gallons of water... Something got really hot, or irradiated.
400,000 cubic yards per tower i.e. WTC 1 and WTC 2 was used during construction, afterwards no recognizable pieces of it were left. Many firefighters and cleanup workers very publicly remarked about the striking lack of solid materials left in the collapse, only steel, aluminum, paper and dust. Everything else was completely vaporized into incredibly fine and incredibly hot micron sized particulate.
Just prior to collapse, WTC 2 was largely extinguished, WTC 1 was full of black smoke indicating inefficient combustion. Some of the Initial estimates by the likes of Environmental Health Laboratories Inc had the fires at around 500 degrees. Is that hot enough to create iron spheres or blow car doors off their hinges hundreds of feet away? Just how does dust from a fire related collapse initiating 80-90 floors above burn cars up anyway? You're talking hot spots of up to 1500 degrees fully a month later.
But no, office furniture fires don't typically pop car doors off their hinges from 800 feet above do they?
"He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high — a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping."
-George W. Bush
I'm curious as to what explosives you think 'Mr. President' was referring to here... George Bush believed there were explosives in the buildings, and even referred to operatives placing them at specific locations to ensure the optimum casualty count. This was shortly after he told us we should never tolerate conspiracy theories regarding 9-11 so you can understand my confusion as a good law abiding red blooded American. Then of course Cheney, 'MR. Vice President' told us a missile hit the pentagon....

[twitchy]

Anyways, in the two videos I posted earlier, one of the more interesting little facts you don't hear much about is the Flight School that Mohamed Atta attended has a very interesting history.
The American people were sold a story which claimed these were muslim fundamentalists, religious extremists, a claim that is muddied further by Mohamed Atta's ex-girlfriend, Amanda Keller's contention that during his flight school training at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Florida, Atta frequented strip bars, used coc aine and was apparently a hedonist. Amanda Keller was not named as witness to the 9-11 commission, and along with several otehr residents of the area later claimed to have been harassed and intimidated, by Florida Law Enforcement and FBI agents to prevent them from talking to the media.
Huffman Aviation....
It is interesting to note that one of the 9-11 comissioners was none other than Ben-Veniste, who defended Barry Seal, drug smuggler extraordinaire who ran coc aine into Mena AK on behalf of the famous Contras during the Bush era CIA's Iran Contra operations and was gunned down in his car with George Bush Sr. personal phone number on him. Bush actually owned Barry's plane for a while.
Also interesting to note that the flight school in question here, Huffman Aviation was owned by Wally Hillard, if that name doesn't ring a bell, then perhaps the largest Heroin bust in Florida history will....
It's also important to remember that Barry Seal was linked to Pablo Escobar, the overnight Columbian bazillionaire. That's just one of the 9-11 commissioners, Ben-Veniste. If you know your JFK history, or even Iran-Contra 'Flight Schools' should perk your ears up as well.
And here's a great read on BCCI...
http://www.historycommons.org/context.js...riclubbcci
Yeah, sure plastics and the like produce a thick black smoke, hey you got me there... more grey when it burns out it's fuel source and smolders like WTC 2 though, and well, hardly any smoke from the mostly contained fires of WTC 7.

But what about all that thick black smoke, do you think that has a cooling affect on flames in an enclosure which might have led to the original estimates of 500 degrees by folks that know that kind of stuff... or do you think that maybe fuel rich hydrocarbons can get so incredibly hot in a few hours that they permeate the structural grid of one of the largest steel framed high rises in the history of modern construction and cause a catastrophic collapse of accelerating debris through it's own intact understructure and into it's own footprint, three times in a row in one day and cause what, 60 thousand tons or so of concrete to turn into micron sized particulate, molten steel and hotspots for months, and leave anamolous high levels of radioactive isotopes in their wake? That's some pretty high temperatures for black smoke.

It's a rhetorical question, Yes thick black smoke actually cools fires. The excess hydrocarbons in the dark smoke absorb a great deal of radiant heat and as the smoke escapes it carries some of it away and also tends to create an oxygen poor environment for the open flames. I'm pretty sure NIST overlooked that, but it's been a while since I've read through the notes I took. I took a science class once.
I'd be very interested in your opinions as to what type of explosives Mr. President might have been talking about in that speech... and why do you suppose it was removed from the record there on metabunk, and the whitehouse. Ethically, of course it's pretty questionable, but do you reckon it's standard procedure these days to go about rewording a US President's speeches for posterity?
As to why Mohamed Atta wanted to take flying lessons, I think it's a far more interesting question to ask why he wanted to at Huffman Aviation.
The 'money' Susan Lindauerer received from the Iraqis that they tried to charge her for was for two dinners with Iraqi delegates, which was well within her job description, totaling around 90 bucks. That's how trumped her charges were.
Looking at the records, judge Michael B. Mukasey was a Bush croney who almost had a CIA asset and 9/11 whistleblower medically lobotomized over a 90 dollar dinner tab and 'secret charges'.
A trumped up trial after months of imprisonment and a lot of fancy and arguably very convenient new Patriot Act stipulations that would freak George Orwell out all the while under the constant threat of being 'medicated' despite your own substantial evidence of competence for doing your job in the first place... You can imagine the stress.
Evidence? Sure, Knock yourself out. I've already posted a video, which you apparently haven't seen yet as Ms. Lindauer says pretty clearly that it was her handler that told her about the fallout concerns.
You're aware of her own psychiatric evaluations that pretty clearly show she was mentally competent?
Do you think it is normal for the US Government to incarcerate and charge their own intelligence assets for 90 dollar dinner tabs?
She tells you the name of her handler and I've always hated doing other peoples homework for them. There's a wealth of evidence of radioactive fallout...
Not to mention that the cleanup procedures employed at ground zero, I.e. spreading wet sand, hosing down with water, requiring the removal of clothing and the like, that is pretty standard radioactive decontamination protocols.
A few years back, Rumormillnews had their entire archives wiped out so some of the original links to their site aren't working but I did a little digging and found this gem on the wayback machine. If your genuinely curious as to how this theory came about, this is a good start....
web.archive.org...://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=25146
Scroll on down to where it says 'EXPLOSIVES MIXED IN CONCRETE ANSWERS ALL OF THE ABOVE', pretty fascinating read and probably something folks need to grab a copy of considering the frequent server attacks on alternative news sites like RMN.
Link isn't working because of the multiple http tags in their address. The original URL of the article is http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/arc...read=25146 and it looks like you might have to manually search for it here. But it's there for now, enjoy!
Here's another pretty interesting read in regards to the actual construction of the WTC..

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11demolitionexplained.html
There were curious mentions of factors like the revised plans for the core not being made available until 2 days before work on the core was due to begin as well as the strange security measures inconsistent with what ordinarily were simply construction processes. This was mostly associated with the rebar having the "special plastic coating"....

The actual slowdown in construction upon discovery of the rebar coating failure, when it was revealed by the government agency constructing, and the videographers had to pry for this information (contractors revealed economic damages from un explained security measures), that there was a special anti corrosion, anti vibration resistant coating on the rebar of the concrete core structure. The coating was flammable and special precautions were to be taken, meaning the government would conduct the butt welding of the 3 inch vertical bar with welders having a security clearance prior to regular crews running the horizontal minor steel that is tied with wire.

Welders working on the main steel couldn't be used because they didn't have security clearances. A special crew with armed escorts standing outside visual screens in the beginning of construction removed the coating from the bars, beveled the bar ends, welded the bar and x-rayed them. The armed guards were removed after suspicions were aroused.

Pretty interesting when you throw a Bin Laden Construction Group into that mix. Check the link out though, that's just a snippet.

An Excerpt from the statement of Robert L. Parish Sr.
On day, as the lead consultant engineer was in my lab talking just about "stuff", I asked him, "Sometime in future, in 50 years or so, how are these Twin Towers are going to be taken down as tall as they were going to be and as tight as land is in a crowded city, without causing fast destruction to other buildings?"
He was standing upright. He outstretched his right arm with his palm down. And said, "Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam" as he lowered his hand down one imaginary floor at a time. All the way down to the floor. I knew that we had to certify these commutators to be able to operate continuously for 50 years without service or repair as our part of the contract. He explained that as the buildings are being built, explosive charges are being incorporated into the structures at key floor joint locations. So, that when the first charges are set-off at the top floors, they will take that floor down to the next. And the charges at that floor will take it down to the next floor. This will continue all the way down. The Twin Towers will come straight down like a stack of pancakes. When the buildings get old and no longer useful or profitable to have and maintain, all it will take is a phone call to take them down.

No wonder the Port Authority was refusing to give up the blueprints and making people sign agreements not to sue them over the information.

[twitchy]

Osama Bin Laden's CIA pseudonym was Tim Osman. Bush's connections are well known and the Bin Laden family was given a free ticket out of the US on 9-11 when no other commercial air traffic was allowed to fly.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLE...osman.html
Meeting Riconosciuto and Gunderson at the hotel were two representatives of the mujahadeen, waiting to discuss their armament needs. One of the two was named "Ralph Olberg." The other one was called Tim Osman (or Ossman).

"Ralph Olberg" was an American businesman who was leading the procurement of American weapons and technology on behalf of the Afghan rebels. He worked through the Afghan desk at the U.S. State Department, as well as through Senator Hubert Humphrey's office. Olberg looked after the Afghanis through a curious front called MSH - Management Sciences for Health.

The other man, dressed in Docker's clothing, was not a native Afghan any more than Olberg was. He was a 28-year-old Saudi. Tim Osman (Ossman) has recently become better known as Osama Bin Ladin. "Tim Osman" was the name assigned to him by the CIA for his tour of the U.S. and U.S. military bases, in search of political support and armaments.

Also Bin Laden was being treated in an American Hospital in Dubai just weeks prior to 9-11, and according to several French Papers at the time, was visited by CIA agents there.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/no....terrorism
Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".

http://www.rense.com/general14/bushsformer.htm
Salem bin Laden, Osama's older brother, was an investor in Arbusto Energy. - the Texas oil company started by George W. Bush. Arbusto means "Bush" in Spanish. Salem bin Laden died in an airplane crash in Texas in 1988. Sheik Mohammed bin Laden, the family patriarch and founder of its construction empire, also died in a plane crash. Upon his death in 1968, he left behind 57 sons and daughters - the offspring he sired with 12 wives in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. About a dozen brothers manage Bin Laden Brothers Construction - one of the largest construction firms in the Middle East. Fresh out of Harvard Business School, young George W. Bush returned to Midland, TX, in the late 1970s to follow his father's footsteps in the oil business. Beginning in 1978, he set up a series of limited partnerships - Arbusto '78, Arbusto '79, and so on - to drill for oil. One of President Bush's earliest financial backers was James Bath, a Houston aircraft broker. Bath served with President Bush in the Texas Air National Guard. Bath has a mysterious connection to the Central Intelligence Agency. According to a 1976 trust agreement, Salem bin Laden appointed James Bath as his business representative in Houston. Revelation about Bath's relationship with the bin Laden financial empire and the CIA was made public in 1992 by Bill White, a former real estate business partner with Bath. White informed federal investigators in 1992 that Bath told him that he had assisted the CIA in a liaison role since 1976 - the same year former President George Herbert Walker Bush served as director of the CIA.

http://www.denverpost.com/rodriguez/ci_4319898
Several bin Laden family members invested millions in The Carlyle Group
Interestingly, on Sept. 11, 2001, members of the Carlyle Group - including Bush senior, and his former secretary of state, James Baker - were meeting at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Washington, D.C., along with Shafiq bin Laden, another one of Osama bin Laden's brothers.
While all flights were halted following the terrorist attacks, there was one exception made: The White House authorized planes to pick up 140 Saudi nationals, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, living in various cities in the U.S. to bring them back to Saudi Arabia, where they would be safe. They were never interrogated.

http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/69782
ties-between-the-bush-family-and-osama-bin-laden
Ties Between the Bush Family and Osama bin Laden
The Bushes' private links to the bank passed to Bin Mahfouz through Texas businessman James R. Bath, who invested money in the United States on behalf of the Saudi. In 1976, when Bush was the head of the CIA, the agency sold some of the planes of Air America, a secret "proprietary" airline it used during the Vietnam War, to Skyway, a company owned by Bath and Bin Mahfouz. Bath then helped finance George W. Bush's oil company, Arbusto Energy Inc., in 1979 and 1980.
When Harken Energy Corp., which had absorbed Arbusto (by then merged with Spectrum 7 Energy), got into financial trouble in 1987, Jackson Stephens of the powerful, politically-connected Arkansas investment firm helped it secure 25 million dollars in financing from the Union Bank of Switzerland. As part of that deal, a place on the board was given to Harken shareholder Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh, whose chief banker was BCCI shareholder Bin Mahfouz.
Then, in 1988, George Bush Sr. was elected president. Harken benefited by getting some new investors, including Salem bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's half-brother, and Khalid bin Mahfouz. Osama bin Laden himself was busy elsewhere at the time - organising al Qaeda.
The money BCCI stole before it was shut down in 1991 - somewhere between 9.5 billion and 15 billion dollars - made its 20-year heist the biggest bank fraud in history. Most of it was never recovered. International banks' complicity in the offshore secrecy system effectively covered up the money trail.

Some of these links are probably dead now...
http://www.mafhoum.com/press2/65Safp.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/george-w-bu...11/5332870
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_fa..._bush.html
http://www.rense.com/general14/BLolderbrother.htm
http://tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html
http://noliesradio.org/archives/4810