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The government is using your driver's license to play Big Brother.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. But it's a privilege that has become a virtual necessity. For many Americans, a driver's license is a also license to earn a living, see friends, go shopping, and get away from it all on the weekends. Take away that card, and people will do almost anything to get it back. They'll even pay their parking tickets.
"Suspension of a driver's license is more effective than a court order" for getting money out of people, says David Lewis, Deputy Registrar of the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles. In Massachusetts, you can't renew your driver's license if you have outstanding parking tickets, unpaid moving violations, or if you owe excise tax on your automobile.
"It's the most effective thing that you can do without throwing them in jail," says Peter Nunnenkamp, manager of driver programs at Oregon's Driver and Motor Vehicle Services. "And it's fairly cost effective." In fact, it's so effective that Oregon has 109 different offenses that can result in the temporary suspension of a driver's license; 50 of them have nothing at all to do with driving.
"Most law abiding people take it very seriously. They pay their fines and pay their reinstatement fee," says Julie Clark, deputy director of Wisconsin's Bureau of Driver Services. In Wisconsin, you can lose your driver's license if you forget to pay your library fines, don't shovel the snow off your sidewalk, or don't trim a tree that overhangs a neighbor's property.
The driver's license has become something it was never intended to be: a badge of good citizenship. Pay your bills to city and state, pay your child support, don't get caught using drugs, and the state will let you keep on trucking. Screw up, and they'll clip your wings. And for those who don't get the message and stay on the roads? In most states, getting caught driving without a license, or with one that's been suspended or revoked, means handcuffs, a trip down to the local jail, and having your car towed to the pound.
In other words, it's serious shit.
Most businesses and state agencies have a problem with outstanding debt. Bounced checks, IOUs, stolen credit cards - it all adds up. Some organizations write off anywhere from 5 to 20 percent of their debts as "uncollectable."
Most agencies, that is, except for the DMV. "We don't have debt," says Lewis, who oversees all of the Massachusetts Registry's computer and information systems. Last year, the Massachusetts Registry collected more than US$660 million in fees and fines; less than $600,000 came back as bounced checks - a whopping 0.1 percent. "How can you afford to stiff us?" Lewis asks rhetorically. "Whatever it is you have, we'll take it. We'll pull your driver's license. We'll take your title. We just don't have bad debt." Lewis pauses a moment to consider his words, then shrugs, his point made: At the Massachusetts Registry, "we walk a very fine line with incredible power over people."
Increasingly, lawmakers around the country are employing that power to enforce public policies that have nothing to do with driving or motor vehicles. Lewis and his counterparts in other states aren't happy with the change, but there's little they can do when legislatures hand down new rules.
"Every governmental agency is looking for every means possible to...enforce the regulations and policies in front of it," says Barry Goleman, President of AAMVANET, a computer network run by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators that links together the computers of the United States's 51 motor vehicle agencies. And increasingly, says Goleman, those state agencies are turning towards the DMVs as a source of data about the state's citizens, a way of providing services, and ultimately, a means of enforcing policy.
The DMVs fit the bill perfectly. On one hand, the DMV database lists virtually every man, woman, and teenager of each state more accurately than the state's own census or tax roles. (Even people who don't drive usually end up getting "identification" cards, issued by the state DMVs, so they can do simple things like write a check or buy an alcoholic drink.) On the other hand, the DMV has a unique means of forcing citizens to comply with state edicts. In short, the DMV is a one-stop-shop for state agencies that want to reach out and affect our lives.
Ironically, this concentration of information, power, and responsibilities has received scant attention from traditional privacy and civil libertarian advocates. The American Civil Liberties Union, Ralph Nader's Public Citizen, and even Robert Smith, editor of the esteemed The Privacy Journal, performed an exercise in collective buck-passing when called to comment for this article. The only group that has made any statement on the issue at all is the American Automobile Association: "Problems or violations of the law not having anything to do with the operation of a motor vehicle should not result in the loss or suspension of a driver's license," says AAA spokesperson Geoff Sundstrom.
Instead, it has been motor vehicle administrators themselves who have been honking the horn, warning that their agencies are becoming Big Brother incarnate. The only problem is that nobody is listening.

Think about it. If you walked out of your house or apartment tomorrow morning and you could not drive for the rest of the year, what would you do? What would that cost you? How much harder would life get for you? Could you even keep your job?

That is tyranny. That is fear, control, oppression.

A reasonable argument for an agency, public or private, to regulate the issuing of drivers licenses would be that society, as a whole, needs a system to educate and test potential drivers because cars at 70 mph are seriously dangerous things, and to control their legal access to vehicles based on violations of the law associated with driving a car. Reasonable. Easily managed by a private entity.

So why then, does California require and digitally collect your fingerprint? What does that have to do with my ability to safely operate a motor vehicle?

Why then, do many states suspend your license for failure to pay a parking ticket? For failure to pay child support? For failure to pay a speeding ticket and other minor infractions? For failure to appear in court? For writing bad checks? For public drunkenness? For petty theft? For failure to pay your taxes? How does taking away your license resolve any of these issues? In fact, doesn’t it make it harder to resolve them?

And think about how indispensable your driver’s license has become. You need it to open a checking account, to buy a drink, to fly on a plane, to use your credit card, to get a job. How many times a month do you have to show your license to do something? And not only do you need a driver’s license, but you need a current one, which means every few years the Government gets to decide if you’re still being a good little citizen so every few years your ability to do all of these things is put back in jeopardy.

The government can, basically, erase your existence to the modern world by having total control over this one, seemingly unimportant and dull yet prolific piece of plastic. Papers, please…is your reality.

Quote:The reaction by anyone to your expired license confirms an absolute reality. The reality that an expired license is somehow suddenly no longer valid for anything you need a license for does not mean that you have forgotten how to drive a car, or that you have suddenly become dangerous, or that you no longer exist, it means the Government has not yet re-approved your freedom, and for that reason, you have been cut-off from society.

Government, as usual, has used the, “for your safety” canard to wedge itself between you and your freedoms by anointing itself the regulator of your life. Government, as it always does, has slowly and willfully taken a reason most people would agree with, and converted it into a tool of oppression, control, fear and punishment. 
Quote:Wake up to what your government is doing to you. Wake up to all the ways it has permeated its way into every corner of your life saturating you with regulation, which is just a means to control you, like who you can work for, how much you can earn, who your doctor is, it records all your emails, texts, phone calls and internet searches, it decides whether you can leave the country or not, if you can drive or not, if you’re using too much water, too much electricity, if your tires are not inflated enough, if your dog is legal, if you can have two legs or not, who you can marry, who you can divorce, who your customers can be, what you can use to pay for things and what you can’t, if you can capture rain on your own property, which life-saving drugs you can take, if you can build inside your own house or not, if you can keep your house, how much you’re allowed to deposit in your bank accounts, who you can hire, who you can fire, if you can own a gun or not, which milk you can drink, how much it can steal tax from you, who it can redistribute your income to, how many hours you’re allowed to work, what age you can drink, what age you can drive, what age you can die in a war, when to sign up for the draft, and on and on and on.


Never lose your license before getting ready to take a flight.. you'll go in full panic mode..

According to a friend, not me Chuckle
The question is... is driving a right, or a priveledge?


(06-10-2017, 12:50 AM)Johntaraz Wrote: [ -> ]The question is... is driving a right, or a priveledge?

1dunno1 popnana
(06-10-2017, 01:01 AM)~mc~ Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-10-2017, 12:50 AM)Johntaraz Wrote: [ -> ]The question is... is driving a right, or a priveledge?

1dunno1  popnana

[Image: IMG_4401.JPG]
In a way, you could say a Drivers License is like a mini passport. Without it, you can't do certain things. Besides cel phones, people are lost without them.
Lets start with rationale State uses, reasons they have enshrined in law.

Failure to register for Selective service
AWOL from military
Moving violations
Parking tickets
Smog certification
Felony conviction
Child Support
Outstanding debt
Student loan debt
Wanted fugitive
No proof of insurance to DMV, loan company, accident
Failure to complete diversion classes
Bypassing or failure when required to adhere to alcohol detection systems like intoxalock
Point accumulation
Repeat violations
Failure to appear in a court case
Medically unfit - this is a broad category surprisingly. Doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists can flag anyone.
Refusing a chemical test
Debt collectors

There are many non-related-to driving causes for suspending or revoking driver's licenses.
The driver's license is used as a tool of compliance.

Does the State have the right to restrict a qualified driver from their freedom of movement for peripheral/unrelated reasons not associated with driving?

Does the revokation of driver's license for these peripheral reasons cause harm?

If a license is revoked, will that person who is reliant on their driver's license for work, getting to work, childcare, groceries, transporting family such as underrage or elderly, their ability to function in a world largely dependent on transportation by a personal vehicle?
This puts a block between their revokation and their ability to remedy that revocation.

And why are illegals with no documentation given driver's licenses?
(06-10-2017, 12:50 AM)Johntaraz Wrote: [ -> ]The question is... is driving a right, or a priveledge?

It's a legal term with a specific definition.

Quote:What is DRIVER?

One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle,with horses, mules, or other animals, or a bicycle, tricycle, or motor car, though not a street railroad car. See Davis v. Petrinovich, 112 Ala. 654, 21 South. 344, 36 L. R. A.615; Gen. St. Conn. 1902,

This is actually correct across the varied law dictionaries online. The stumble for me is the way they actually use it in an example. There the varied dictionaries fail to actually read the definition they posted.

Quote:TLD Example: The law required every driver operating a motor vehicle on the public streets and roadways to obtain a state-issued license before doing so.

Based upon their own legal definition, a vehicle not used for commercial purposes does not require a drivers license. One must be employed and/or profiting from the use of that vehicle in a commercial fashion before the requirement becomes legally necessary.

This has actually been stated emphatically by a variety of courts including the Supreme Court.

Quote:U.S. Supreme Court Says No License Necessary To Drive Automobile On Public Roads


“The right of a citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but a common right which he has under his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Under this constitutional guaranty one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another’s rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct.”

There are more citations at the site.

But here we tread into the dreaded 'sovereign citizen' territory according to the vast majority of the population. "Why doesn't that clown have a license when I have to get one?" If you are not a commercial operator then no, you don't need one and that 'clown' is actually correct.

But as John mentions, there are many financial aspects to keeping people believing that they actually do need a drivers license if they are just travelling about on their own personal chores and enjoyment.

As far as all the other requirements such as tobacco and alcohol purchase, banking and other non driving related needs you can actually get by with a state issued photo ID card instead of a drivers license.
In some ways you murikans are more fucked than us europeans.


(06-10-2017, 09:01 PM)friedrich Wrote: [ -> ]In some ways you murikans are more fucked than us europeans.

I don't doubt that. I don't think we always realize it though until threads like this..

thanks a lot @titanic1 Chuckle
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